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10ECTyrant said:
On another note....jets have gone full retard giving Gase full reigns
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...an-name-first-year-coach-adam-gase-acting-gm/
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Yeah...I live in NY and all those Jets fans who have been walking a little taller with their heads finally high thinking...we have our QB, we have a new HC and are finally ready to roll...and then FUBAR!!!

Honestly, this happens when the organizational problem starts at the TOP. The Jets have a stupid organizational setup which is to say, that the HC is not UNDER the GM. The HC and GM both answer to the OWNER so theoretically, they are on the same level. However, the GM nows is just the paper boy for what the HC wants and when they both have a problem (as occurred recently), they both complain to the owner. Who is he gonna side with...the HC he just gave a 4 year contract to who basically got the job because Johnson got a call from Peyton Manning saying how good he was...or McCagnan who has 2 years on his contract and is no longer the cook?

What's crazy is that one of them (Gase most likely) leaked to reporters there was a problem between them. Then the press ask gase about it and he's like...it's no big deal. Right after that, McCagnan is toast...

AND...Gase is now the HC AND Interim GM!!!

AND he has already made his first trade...sending Darron Lee...a 1st round pick not playing well...to the KC Chiefs for...a 6th round pick next year!!!

And because this was done after May 7th, he won't factor into any compensatory pick formula for next year (bad for Jets, good for KC).

Jets are already staring at the floor going...here we go again!!!

SAME OLD JETS!!!
 
Thaddeus43 said:
Lewis sucked. I put most of the blame for that on Lefluer though for completely miss using him.

Lewis is a 3rd Down and change of pace back. He is good for popping a nifty run here and there and catching out of the backfield. But that’s not how Lefluer used him.

Maybe that’s cause Henry wasn’t running too wel either, but I think if we force feed Henry, he fixes his issues faster.

Either way, Lewis was not the weapon we envisioned him to be last year.

Taylor just isn’t a #2 WR. He needs to be a 3/4 . He has speed and can be a deep threat, but isn’t much more than that.

Davis started to flash. I expect him to put it together this year.

Overall, Our weapons last year were subpar (until Henry broke out).
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I think the OL caused a lot of problems from playcalling to tactical and more strategic decisions as well. Lewis did a lot of running between the tackles and SHOULD have been able to do that here as well. But I think Henry running so inconsistently meant they were trying to force feed Lewis more since he is more versatile. Check to a pass play and Lewis can be a mismatch out of the backfield.

But the OL wasn't creating a lot of room and kept putting us in 3rd and long so he went to the short quick pass game...wr screens and short passes meant to be like runs.

I think now that Henry has done it...even for only a month, he knows he can be that weapon. And we do too! They will build the offense around him. I just hope we are smart enough to do what the Rams do and let him run out of 3 wr sets. We have the wr's and TE to get mismatches and force teams to play nickel vs Henry or defend 3 wr's and Walker out of base (4 db's).

Taylor is better suited for a 3/4 wr role...but I'd try him out on punt return. A 3/4 wr should be playing special teams and give us another way to use his explosive ability. Although, we'll want to make D@MN sure he can catch punts!!!​
 
Statz916 said:
If MM is shy on throwing deep (maybe he doesn’t trust who’s deep) or maybe it’s a confidence thing as if he throws pick he’ll get benched. If that’s the case and him in a contract year, I see him not wanting to make mistakes or make that throw Incase it ends up as a bad stat against him def now that he has a replacement that could easily take his job. I guess I’m saying if he has t thrown deep much in 4years I def don’t expect him to do it in a contract year knowing everything he does/doesn’t will be counted against him
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It's none of those things.

We are a run first offense that will take shots deep when defenses load the box and we can go max protect and get favorable matchups. The problem is, we couldn't run well most of the season and we had 1 major weapon to scare teams with. Taylor had a few good games, but was almost invisible in others and had some HUGE drops.

So we didn't get the strategic philosophy working since we didn't have the staple (the run game) of the offense working. Secondly, it put us in a lot of 3rd and long...which is not the best time to go deep!

Mariota is certainly willing between the 20's to take shots. He threaded the needle (between defenders) and made some great intermediate to deep throws several times. No, he was also banged up so that may have contributed to him not throwing as deep as much as he might have. He also missed a couple of wide open shots he can't miss.

He runs the plays the coaches give him and he runs them the way he's coached too...to read his progressions and take what the defense gives him (or when the offensive player wins).

Simple as that. Protect Mariota better, stay healthy, run better, and keep better weapons on the field and we should be good to go!!!
 
Tuckfro42 said:
“In reality, you only have to look at the player and his production.” - Gut
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Yup! The player has the tools, heart and leadership...and we've put him in the position he needs to be in...better OL, multiple receiving weapons, strong run game! Now it's up to him to put up the production!!!
 
JCBRAVE said:
They're looking at Daniel Jeremiah for a front office job
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Only way he should touch that job is if they change their structure. No way would I be the GM and be the same level as the coach who just walked in the door.

Gase just got their and already has too much power! Plus, when the Jets hired Gase, there were rumblings he was 'difficult' to work with. Why would you go there?
 
JR1980 said:
Don’t you guys ever get sick of excuses though? Honestly? He got matched by Josh Rosen...on a bum azz squad....FOH. It’s not just about TD’s. It’s 24/23 the past 2 years....it’s the decline. He’s basically had 1 good year...It’s Not like we are dominating. 8-8/9-7 is average, and even then, it wasn’t all him. Thank our defense. As for Dion Lewis, yeah, he sucked. But he was damn good the previous year in NE. We are 1 dimensional for a reason, and to act like that is all on our wideouts is ridiculous.
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It's kind of ridiculous for you to say you're not a hater and want him to succeed and to come off as balanced, but then you repeat the nonsense as if you believe it! And this isn't the first time.

Who said all of our problems were on the wide outs? NO ONE! So why would you say that and in the same paragraph agree with someone else that Lewis - a RB - sucked. How could a guy put forth that another position player stunk and you agree with him, then make up that the 'non haters' think it was only about our wr's?!?!?!?

Are you that bored?

Re-read the hundreds of pages of the various Mariota threads. this argument has been hashed out several times.

And if that doesn't do it for ya...tell me how brand spanking awesome our OL played all year in 2018. And their play had precious little to do with Mariota so you can leave him out of your awesome review. Perhaps you can come to a conclusion as to why Lewis was much worse running behind our line than NE's that has nothing to do with QB play.
 
abc2330 said:
The complaints about the supporting cast go out the window when you consider that despite having a terrible offensive line, no running game, and a bunch of castoff WRs, and nearly topping the league in QB hits, Mariota had a career high in YPG and yards per attempt in his rookie season, as well as a 2/1 TD/INT ratio. He's been gun shy since '17 . There's no other reasonable explanation as to why he was so much worse than he was during his first two years in the league.
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Since I am bored of this nonsense, let's play a game.

Let's see if you can figure something out that your post shows you currently don't understand.

Try to flip the argument and come up with a reason why Mariota would have the stats he had that year and doesn't have this year.

I can. Because your conclusions are almost always wrong (qb should be spiderman and make up for all OL mistakes, wr's can't be judged by anyone for 3-4 years, he's too gun shy because he won't throw the ball unless there is at least 3 yards of separation - too bad you made it up and its simply not true at all) because you take the lazy answer...to make something up about Mariota. LOL

Do you even realize you're a hater? I mean, are you aware of how much nonsense you've simply made up to bash him? Just curious!

But I digress. So your challenge is to come up with an actual reason for Mariota's difference in 'stats' (hint - that YOU look at) and it's not because he's declining and it's not because he's gun shy! This is a simple thought experiment to see if you can get past your own biases and see everything. Don't argue whether he's declining or not or whether he's gun shy. They aren't the answer.

Can you come up with a real answer?
 
abc2330 said:
Are we going around the wheel of excuses now? We made a change in 16, and he actually improved. Then he got worse, with no change to the coaching staff at all. He was so bad, in fact, that we HAD to get a new HC and OC in order to fix him. It's not like it was done intentionally to stunt his development.
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So, why did we get rid of the HC and GM if they were doing a spectacular job and our QB was terrible? And please be specific since you said it was a FACT that he was so bad, we had to get rid of others but keep him.

And to clarify, you thought the previopus HC and GM were doing a good job and shouldn't have been fired???
 
Gut said:
Yup! The player has the tools, heart and leadership...and we've put him in the position he needs to be in...better OL, multiple receiving weapons, strong run game! Now it's up to him to put up the production!!!
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Not sure if you’re talking about Conklin or Mariota...
 
JR1980 said:
I know I know. It’s hard to face the truth. The Mary d riding crew is reaaaaaaally running out of excuses and time. ;)
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So if your car stops working, do you yell at the tow truck guy because it doesn't work. Then you yell at the mechanic who's working on your car because it doesn't work. He gives you a list of things that are wrong and why it won't work...but you yell at him those are just excuses. So you fire your mechanic and decide the problem is...it doesn't have enough gas, so you fill it up...but shockingly, it still doesn't work.

So you tow it to another shop. The mechanic looks at it and gives you a list of why it won't work and you yell at him those are just excuses. So you put more gas in the tank and it still doesn't work.

So rather than fix that 'list of excuses,' you give the car away and buy a new one that isn't as nice...but it works!!! And now you're happy to have gotten rid of that piece of junk!

Meanwhile, the guy you gave your car to changes the dead battery, changes a spark plug, and adds oil...and has a new car, better than yours!!!

And is it possible to have a civil conversation without insulting people with language that doesn't belong on this board?
 
HurrayTitans! said:
Which players does Mariota have 5 (4 really) years with?
Lewan?
Not a Mariota apologist by any means, but I think he’s got mostly an offense with 2-3 years with and even that is scattered.
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If you don't agree to hate him for nonsensical reasons, you are an apologist in some people's minds.

If you think all players should be held accountable for their play, they ask why are you bashing everyone BUT Mariota (when I DID criticize Mariota too...lol).

Plus, they have no argument for the question you brought up because there is no legit answers they can turn to.

Has CD been in this offense for 4 years? No. Walker? Yes (but hurt nearly the whole season). Taylor? No.

You're making too much sense. When they attack you...you know you're on the right track and asking the right questions.
 
Jwill1919 said:
I’ve said it a hundred times, if Marcus does it 2 years straight franchise deal. Otherwise no.
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So if he does it once, you think we should tag him at a HIGHER rate for another year to see if he can do it twice in a row? Or no matter what he does this year, you'd dump him and spend a majority of multiple drafts to get a new franchise guy in the draft or take a chance on a journeyman like Tannehill and hope our less experienced offensive staff can get more out of him than the more experienced staff he was playing under?
 
Tuckfro42 said:
Not sure if you’re talking about Conklin or Mariota...
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Strange comment...has anyone been complaining about Conklin's LACK of production?

The only other position Conklin's been in is on the bench...so why would you think that? Or do you mean that you think Conklin should be moved inside because that's a better position for him?

And Conklin doesn't have 'production.'

The only comparable thing is that they both better play up to expectations this year. The difference is, we had Conklin's backup out play him on our team in our scheme last year. You could argue you think Tannehill could be Mariota's replacement, but we (nor the coaching staff or JRob) have seen him play better than Mariota on our team in our scheme.
 
10ECTyrant said:
“Tennessee Titans
Fatal Flaw: Quarterback

Tennessee actually did pretty well without Marcus Mariota at times, but it was obvious how much someone like Blaine Gabbert limited them. Which is why they got Ryan Tannehill! Unfortunately they now have two quarterbacks with major questions -- is either actually a franchise QB? Mariota and Tannehill are similar athletes and both former top-10 picks. One (Tannehill) got paid and one (Mariota) might get paid with a big year? The Titanshave a nice offensive line, a good group of running backs and some high picks at the skill positions (Corey Davis, A.J. Brown -- I'm not willing to bury this group just quite yet). If the quarterback play is above average this could be a sneaky great team.”
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ntzs-health-and-every-teams-possible-pitfall/
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I like how the sportswriters have no consistency from team to team. Read the Rams. They say that the line is their flaw because, in part, saffold left. They then say that our li
Gut said:
If you don't agree to hate him for nonsensical reasons, you are an apologist in some people's minds.

If you think all players should be held accountable for their play, they ask why are you bashing everyone BUT Mariota (when I DID criticize Mariota too...lol).

Plus, they have no argument for the question you brought up because there is no legit answers they can turn to.

Has CD been in this offense for 4 years? No. Walker? Yes (but hurt nearly the whole season). Taylor? No.

You're making too much sense. When they attack you...you know you're on the right track and asking the right questions.
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I don't consider myself a Mariota apologist or a hater. I get the myriad reasons why he hasn't produced so far. I do.

Unfortunately, we are approaching a point where a decision has to be made. Pay this guy 25-35 mil or not. Basically put the entire franchise future on this guy or not.

I'm not willing to do that unless and until I've seen some production at a high level. And for whatever reason, valid excuses or no, we have not. If that doesn't change this season, we have no recourse but to move on. There can't be yet another chance. Because giving that chance will ultimately require us to let good players walk away.

I hope he balls out. I legit think this roster can win a super bowl this season. The afc is weak. We can beat any of those teams. We just need more from the offense.

But if we have another injury and inconsistency riddled season, it's time to move on.
 
Gut said:
It's kind of ridiculous for you to say you're not a hater and want him to succeed and to come off as balanced, but then you repeat the nonsense as if you believe it! And this isn't the first time.

Who said all of our problems were on the wide outs? NO ONE! So why would you say that and in the same paragraph agree with someone else that Lewis - a RB - sucked. How could a guy put forth that another position player stunk and you agree with him, then make up that the 'non haters' think it was only about our wr's?!?!?!?

Are you that bored?

Re-read the hundreds of pages of the various Mariota threads. this argument has been hashed out several times.

And if that doesn't do it for ya...tell me how brand spanking awesome our OL played all year in 2018. And their play had precious little to do with Mariota so you can leave him out of your awesome review. Perhaps you can come to a conclusion as to why Lewis was much worse running behind our line than NE's that has nothing to do with QB play.
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So because I bring up good points I’m a hater, but when you guys have a different point of view or valid points, it’s so much better. Got it. Take off the blinders guys. We are a half decade in still fighting, asking questions, and clueless about Mariota. I guess the front office, analysts, and anyone not sucking his pipe and singing his praises are haters too. Listen man, I was on this site last year at the same time hyping Mariota saying I think he can ball out. I was singing his praises. I said this was his last shot. Well, he declined even more. Go ahead and use excuses all you want....Injuries, crap players next to him, different coaches, etc....But that’s the NFL man. Either you can get it done or you can’t, and right now, I don’t think he is showing he is long term deal worthy. I hope he balls out, but unlike years past, I’m skeptical. If that makes me a hater, I’m sorry...but I’m a Titans fan and I want to win and go beyond 8-8 and 9-7. I’m not satisfied with that bs.
 
If you are willing to hand the keys to a guy that can’t stay healthy, can’t elevate those around them, and can’t be consistent, then I don’t know what to say. Our salary cap is important....He better show me something to earn it, and the front office is saying as much too. I hope it happens, because it means we would be winning and at a new level, but history tells me otherwise. I guess we shall see my friends.
 
Gut said:
So if your car stops working, do you yell at the tow truck guy because it doesn't work. Then you yell at the mechanic who's working on your car because it doesn't work. He gives you a list of things that are wrong and why it won't work...but you yell at him those are just excuses. So you fire your mechanic and decide the problem is...it doesn't have enough gas, so you fill it up...but shockingly, it still doesn't work.

So you tow it to another shop. The mechanic looks at it and gives you a list of why it won't work and you yell at him those are just excuses. So you put more gas in the tank and it still doesn't work.

So rather than fix that 'list of excuses,' you give the car away and buy a new one that isn't as nice...but it works!!! And now you're happy to have gotten rid of that piece of junk!

Meanwhile, the guy you gave your car to changes the dead battery, changes a spark plug, and adds oil...and has a new car, better than yours!!!

And is it possible to have a civil conversation without insulting people with language that doesn't belong on this board?
Click to expand...

Great analogy.

Unknown QB who may never even reach Mariota's level of success and sets us back 2-4 years or give the guy a shot who beat many playoff teams and was the only successful piece outside of Walker and Taylor on offense.
 
TitansWrath said:
I like how the sportswriters have no consistency from team to team. Read the Rams. They say that the line is their flaw because, in part, saffold left. They then say that our li


I don't consider myself a Mariota apologist or a hater. I get the myriad reasons why he hasn't produced so far. I do.

Unfortunately, we are approaching a point where a decision has to be made. Pay this guy 25-35 mil or not. Basically put the entire franchise future on this guy or not.

I'm not willing to do that unless and until I've seen some production at a high level. And for whatever reason, valid excuses or no, we have not. If that doesn't change this season, we have no recourse but to move on. There can't be yet another chance. Because giving that chance will ultimately require us to let good players walk away.

I hope he balls out. I legit think this roster can win a super bowl this season. The afc is weak. We can beat any of those teams. We just need more from the offense.

But if we have another injury and inconsistency riddled season, it's time to move on.
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I agree in thinking we can win a Super Bowl with the roster. Also agree about Mariota.

What about this scenario though. What if Mariota puts up slightly above average stats but we make a deep playoff run or win the Super Bowl?


I'm just not hung up as much on stats as much as I am on efficiency, moving the chains, and executing the offense. As long as he makes the throws required I'm more of a game tape type of guy. I don't know how to explain it, but some "gun slingers" are actually less effective overall despite the stats.
 
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