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- #161
Oh, you mean that year we went to and won a playoff game?
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He had them all in 17 (minus the RB). Matthews, Walker were still good. Davis had some injury issues, but we saw in game one that when Mariota actually threw the ball to him, he looked good. Mariota just became extremely gun shy after his injury. Our OL was actually #1 in the league that year in terms of dropbacks per QB knockdown. There was plenty to suggest that 13 TDs 15 INTs were not the fault of the players around him. He was just really bad.
I think that had more to do with the fact that 9 of our matchups were against teams who have since gotten rid of their QBs or have demoted them to backup.Oh, you mean that year we went to and won a playoff game?
I think that had more to do with the fact that 9 of our matchups were against teams who have since gotten rid of their QBs or have demoted them to backup.
Excuses excusesI think that had more to do with the fact that 9 of our matchups were against teams who have since gotten rid of their QBs or have demoted them to backup.
The film has been broken down way too many times already. There were way too many times when Mariota held the ball with open receivers. Not every time, mind you, so don't overinflate what I am saying, but getting rid of the ball is one of the 20 or so major issues Mariota has.
So Haters isn't a name...
Mariota Minions are down to 5 attacking anyone who doesn't like Mariota, but it is the 98% who are causing the problems...
Stop being ridiculous with these comparisons. Mariota had a limited number of attempts in order to increase his effectiveness and that of the offense-not because they are intentionally trying to hinder the offense and hurt his stats. That's completely idiotic. If he could throw it more, they would allow him to.
Bryant and Whitten were worthless with Dak. Just stop it. Whitten averaged under 10 YPC and Bryant barely caught 50% of his targets. Walker and Matthews were MUCH better. There's a reason both were out of the league last year
You are comparing the stats of our receivers to those who have a BETTER QB!!!!! The argument shouldn't be against our receivers. It should be about how Dak was able to get nearly 900 yards out of Cole Beasley, a WR who averaged 1.8 yards of separation (Corey Davis averaged 3.1 last year), and doubled Amari's production that he was getting with Carr in Oakland . There's pretty damning evidence that he's able to get a lot out of his guys. While Mariota can't even match Metterburg and Locker's production that they got out Delanie Walker most years
The WR's production depends on the productivity of the QB. Not vice versa. And the productivity of our quarterback SUCKS!!!!!
He had them all in 17 (minus the RB). Matthews, Walker were still good. Davis had some injury issues, but we saw in game one that when Mariota actually threw the ball to him, he looked good. Mariota just became extremely gun shy after his injury. Our OL was actually #1 in the league that year in terms of dropbacks per QB knockdown. There was plenty to suggest that 13 TDs 15 INTs were not the fault of the players around him. He was just really bad.
You completely misunderstand the separation argument. I presented that when people claimed that our WRs weren't getting open . And the evidence shows that they were pretty damn open Mariota attempted to get the ball to them. That argument doesn't apply to Brady because he didn't throw 11 TDs last year with people making a ton of excuses for him. And everyone knows that he is in a great system with great coaches, and his receivers get open. But he, in turn, gets a lot out of them as well. Brady and Mariota should never be compared in any way because one is an elite NFL QB and the other is a below average system QB.It's hilarious that you think you can judge a wr's worth by his AVERAGE yards of separation! You can't!!! If a receiver is tightly covered by defender and makes the catch...that makes the reciver BAD? LOL!
The NFL doesn't pay people based on who AVERAGE yards of separation because they know...like I do...there is a lot that goes into that stat. You just don't understand it.
But let's test your theory...
So according to your stat, Chris Hogan is the best wr in the NFL, right? He had the highest avg separation yards of all wr's at 4.1...and, he has the best QB in NFL history throwing him the ball...so he's gotta be putting up top 5 stats with that combo, right?
Let's take a look at your...which drives production, the chicken or the egg...or in this case, the wr or the QB.
Here are the Patriots passing stats for the last few years. Surely if Brady is elevating everyone around him, every pass catcher on the Patriots is a star, right? So let's look at our buddy Chris Hogan...with #1 avg separation yards...
2018
Name/Catches/Yards
James White///////87 catches///751yds
Julian Edelman///74 catches///850yds
Rob Gronkowski/47 catches///682yds
Josh Gordon//////40 catches///720yds
Chris Hogan//////35 catches///532yds
Hmmm...your theory isn't working. The guy with the best avg separation yards isn't even first on his own team. He's FIFTH!? I know what you're thinking...Brady elevates so many guys...Hogan just didn't get his opportunities this year and other years will show much better stats and that he's a star wr.
2017
Gronk//////////69 catches/////1084yds
Cooks//////////65 catches/////1082yds
Amendola///61 catches/////659 yds
White///////////56 catches////429yds
Chris Hogan/34 catches///439yds
Hmmmm...this is baffling. Fifth again! How could a Hall of Fame qb and HC not see his star power? Surely this is just a stroke of bad luck.
2016
Edelman///////98 catches/////1106yds
White////////////60 catches/////551 yds
Bennett////////55 catches/////701yds
Hogan//////////38 catches/////680yds
At least he's fourth but...still 3rd or 4th string production! Catches in the 30's and hasn't broken 700yards! Not good!
Sorry ABC, your theory doesn't work. If it was correct, the wr's with the highest avg separation yards would produce the best stats while matched up with the most PRODUCTIVE qb's!
Except I proved it wrong.
So...I guess Dak doesn't get full credit full elevating all of those around him. Let's look at that...
Cole Beasley's stats..
2015 - Without Dak
52 catches///74 targets///536yds///10.3avg///5 TD's
2016 - with Dak
75 catches///98 targets///833 yards///11.1avg///5 TD's
2017 - with Dak
36 catches///62 targets///314 yards///8.7avg/////4 TD's
2018 - with Dak
65 catches///87 targets///672 yards///10.3avg///3 TD's
So comparing with and without...in 2016, we see and improvement of avg (not a lot at 11.1 and not his career high), we see a yardage increase commensurate to more targets and higher catch rate. But his TD's remain at 5 giving him a drop in TD% per catch (caught 23 more passes and didn't have a single improvement in TD's).
In 2017, in his athletic prime, his production drops significantly...decrease in targets, receptions, yards, avg, and TD's.
In 2018, we see him drop back to similar to 2016 type stats with 65 catches on 87 targets for 672 yards and a 10.3 yard avg and a decrease in TD's.
I thought QB drove production...oh wait...Dak's production feel off too? So Dak playing worse would explain Beasely's performance (except he wasn't really elevated under Dak...he had a 1 year increase in yards and catch rate followed by a big down year) THAT year but not the return to normal...or a little worse in 2018. So where's the elevation? And why did Dak have a down year in 2017?
It's the proverbial elephant in the room...Ezekiel Elliot. Elliot is the driving force behind that offense since their offense is built around hurting teams who try to stack the box. Well, Elliot only played 10 games that season...and that drove Prescott's passing numbers down since they get big benefits from a top rushing attack!
Elliot is the best offensive player on that team.
So if Dak is so great, how come he didn't elevate these receivers? When they do well, it's because of the QB and when they don't...the wr was 'washed up!!!'
LOL
So you don't even believe in your own theory (arguing against it when the WR's production isn't good)!
he doesnt understand that stat, he's proven it all offseason. he's not giving up though.It's hilarious that you think you can judge a wr's worth by his AVERAGE yards of separation! You can't!!! If a receiver is tightly covered by defender and makes the catch...that makes the reciver BAD? LOL!
a system qb? which system? the first, second, third, or fourth? lmaoBrady and Mariota should never be compared in any way because one is an elite NFL QB and the other is a below average system QB.
Hide the QB system. All of them.a system qb? which system? the first, second, third, or fourth? lmao
Hide the QB system. All of them.
No system is going to make a QB significantly worse. Less productive, sure. But Luck may have never missed a significant amount of time if he had Mularkey as a HC, and had an offense which only required him to make the most of his opportunities. That's been the story of Russell Wilson's career, and he is considered an elite QB and threw 35 TDs last year despite Seattle attempting the fewest number of passes in the league. A good running game can help a QB more efficient, and vice versa. But a QB who isn't much of a threat to throw the ball and isn't very efficient is going to cause the entire offense to struggleWhen unleashed what has Mariota done? Did his stats increase or decrease?
Are you saying that with more attempts Mariota would have... wait for it... more yards?
So on one hand you're saying Mariota isn't good SOLELY because of his stats. But now you're saying the system (coaches and scheme) didn't give Mariota a lot of passing attempts.
Hmm... Seems like you don't even know what you're arguing anymore. Liars fatigue setting in?
“No system is going to make a QB significantly worse”No system is going to make a QB significantly worse. Less productive, sure. But Luck may have never missed a significant amount of time if he had Mularkey as a HC, and had an offense which only required him to make the most of his opportunities. That's been the story of Russell Wilson's career, and he is considered an elite QB and threw 35 TDs last year despite Seattle attempting the fewest number of passes in the league. A good running game can help a QB more efficient, and vice versa. But a QB who isn't much of a threat to throw the ball and isn't very efficient is going to cause the entire offense to struggle
If Brady was behind a good O line and with a team that could run the ball, he'd be perfectly fine. You seem to think that the system is the only reason for his success, but if you put Mariota in the same one you would see that it isn't the case.“No system is going to make a QB significantly worse”
That’s got to be the worst opening line in the history of this board. And factually a lie that anybody could disprove.
Let me design a system for Brady and see if he can put up Belichek numbers in it.
They suck at hiding him since he’s been sack so much.Hide the QB system. All of them.
If Brady was behind a good O line and with a team that could run the ball, he'd be perfectly fine. You seem to think that the system is the only reason for his success, but if you put Mariota in the same one you would see that it isn't the case.