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Vigsted said:
I don't have the game on tape so I can't tell you exactly when it happened, but no a couple of their redzone visits our cornerbacks gave 5-7 yards cushions to receivers with the ball at the 5!!!
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I never saw our corners do that. Are you basing this on your own observations or what you read in a forum?

I do notice a lot of cushion at times but that points more to the talent/experience of our corners who are trying to give themselves an advantage to keep from getting burned.

Also I believe we should have blitzed Pennington a lot more than we did, certainly Bulluck and Thornton should be able to get pressure on the edges, but I didn't see it.
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Where? When? Be specific. There were blitzes. Some got some pressure on him. Some didn't and Pennington burned for for it.

You still didn't name me 5 teams that can consistently bring pressure with only the front 4.
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Every 4-3 team who has a top pass defense generates consistent pressure without the blitz. Why do you think the best DEs get paid top dollar and are so highly coveted?
 
TitanJeff said:
I never saw our corners do that. Are you basing this on your own observations or what you read in a forum?
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i was the one who posted that, and believe me, it happened.

TitanJeff said:
I do notice a lot of cushion at times but that points more to the talent/experience of our corners who are trying to give themselves an advantage to keep from getting burned.
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im going to have to disagree with you there. pacman LOVES press coverage, and he's very good at it. when they were "just playing football" in the preseason he was in press coverage non-stop. i dont think it's a coincidence that he had a much better preseason than game one.
 
I'm not saying they never press but I also see situations where they play off the LOS. It's usually due to a situation where the opponent needs a big gainer and the likelihood of a short pass is less.

As good as Rolle was, I remember him playing off the LOS often. It didn't seem to point to bad scheme then.

In the case you mention, I'm throwing the BS flag on that one if you are referring to one of the first two Jets TDs. There was never a "5-7 yard cushion" when the Jets were on the 10.
 
TitanJeff said:
In the case you mention, I'm throwing the BS flag on that one if you are referring to one of the first two Jets TDs. There was never a "5-7 yard cushion" when the Jets were on the 10.
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They didn't score on the particular play/drive I'm referring to, in fact I'm pretty sure it was one of the shanked FG drives. Actually I believe it was at the beginning of the 4th quarter to be exact where the Jets have 1st and 4 on the Titans 4 yard line. Our CB's were lined up about 1 yard deep in the endzone.
I noticed one other play in our redzone where they were backed up 5-7 yards, but I can't remember when exactly or what the outcome was.

I merely referenced bigtitan53279 to illustrate I wasn't the only one who noticed this.
 
TitanJeff said:
In the case you mention, I'm throwing the BS flag on that one if you are referring to one of the first two Jets TDs. There was never a "5-7 yard cushion" when the Jets were on the 10.
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IIRC, it was on the drive that ferguson held laboy. i think cotchery caught a td, but it was nulified.
 
bigtitan53279 said:
IIRC, it was on the drive that ferguson held laboy. i think cotchery caught a td, but it was nulified.
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3-2-TEN2 (14:29) C.Pennington pass short right to J.Cotchery for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN NULLIFIED by Penalty. PENALTY on NYJ-D.Ferguson, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at TEN 2 - No Play.

^-- that was the drive I was talking about too
 
Okay, if the ball was at the 2, then you could very well have seen a corner standing in the endzone at the snap. That's not 5-7 yards.
 
TitanJeff said:
Okay, if the ball was at the 2, then you could very well have seen a corner standing in the endzone at the snap. That's not 5-7 yards.
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On the previous play it was 1st and 4 from the Titans 4, Jeff (why am I repeating myself?) and that was where they had a 5 yard cushion well into the endzone. The fact that they score on a pass on the very next play, just shows we weren't capable of stopping their passing even in such a tight space (if it wasn't for a holding by D'Brick).
 
TitanJeff said:
So how is this bad scheme? ;)
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Very bad. In any scheme the defenders are at a disadvantage because they are reacting to the play whereas the offensive players know what's going to happen.

Too much zone always gives WR a bigger cushion to further put the DB at a disadvantage. Why do our DB's often line up at LOS & start backpedalling before they even bump the WR.

Man coverage disrupts routes & puts it on the WR to beat his man fair & square.

We show blitz plenty of times then drop out of it. Play the 46D with a high percentage of blitzes from all angles then occasionally dropping out of it is clever & confusing. Do it as often as Schwartz does & it pays off to gamble that we aren't actually coming.

The jets last TD drive we had nothing to lose by going after them. Better to get burned trying to kill a drive cold than giving them yards through zone coverage.

Schwartz is like a boxer without a knockout punch. Lots of fancy footwork & jabs but his scheme doesn't put the other team away.
 
The ball was on the two when it was snapped. No way was a CB 5 - 7 yards off the LOS.

You continue to point to a poor scheme on a play the Jets didn't even score on. You have no way of knowing if Pennington even gets the pass away if LaBoy isn't held. Now why would I find that pretty shaky evidence? I'd think if poor scheme was such a factor, you could name a dozen such plays that resulted in much more production by the Jets.

Oh, and as for the importance of getting pressure from your 4-3, check out some of the DL players on these top defenses:

Panthers
Bucs
Colts
Jacksonville
Eagles
Giants
Ravens
Bears

You'll find players who are in the top 10 in sacks and Pro Bowlers down the line. These teams still blitz but they are effective in getting pressure without it. If they were dependent on the blitz to get pressure, they'd not be top defenses.
 
Childress79 said:
The jets last TD drive we had nothing to lose by going after them. Better to get burned trying to kill a drive cold than giving them yards through zone coverage.
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It's getting silly, guys. The Titans had just blitzed and got a fumble on the Jets previous possession. The Jets were three and out the possession before that. Then you blame Schwartz for Hill biting on a fake that cost them a 38-yard gain on the game-winning drive?

I give up. Blame Collins for the offense. Blame Schwartz for the defense.
 
TitanJeff said:
Then you blame Schwartz for Hill biting on a fake that cost them a 38-yard gain on the game-winning drive?
.
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i dont blame schwartz for hill's mistake. i blame him for being the coordinator of a defense that continually gives up game winning drives at the end of games when we desperately need a stop.

we've had different players. we've had different opponents and we've even added a few new position coaches while he's been here. the only constant is schwartz.
 
TitanJeff said:
The ball was on the two when it was snapped. No way was a CB 5 - 7 yards off the LOS.
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No, for the THIRD time, on a play from the Titans 4 yard line, the CB's were standing in the endzone, that's a 5 yard cushion!!

TitanJeff said:
You continue to point to a poor scheme on a play the Jets didn't even score on. You have no way of knowing if Pennington even gets the pass away if LaBoy isn't held. Now why would I find that pretty shaky evidence? I'd think if poor scheme was such a factor, you could name a dozen such plays that resulted in much more production by the Jets.
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True, but you can't for sure otherwise either. And I feel the Jets had significant production to point towards scheming issues.


TitanJeff said:
Oh, and as for the importance of getting pressure from your 4-3, check out some of the DL players on these top defenses:

Panthers
Bucs
Colts
Jacksonville
Eagles
Giants
Ravens
Bears
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Of that list I'll give you Panthers, Bucs, Jags and Bears. The Giants have 2 good DE's but their line as such is nothing special, the Raven's and Eagle's are not unknown to bringing the blitz often and the Colts defensive line is only good because their offence puts up large numbers forcing opposing teams to pass often.

TitanJeff said:
You'll find players who are in the top 10 in sacks and Pro Bowlers down the line. These teams still blitz but they are effective in getting pressure without it. If they were dependent on the blitz to get pressure, they'd not be top defenses.
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We have KVB, Albert Haynesworth, Randy Starks and Robaire Smith, who other teams would love to have. Our only weakspot is Laboy and even he's not that bad.
 
bigtitan53279 said:
we've had different players. we've had different opponents and we've even added a few new position coaches while he's been here. the only constant is schwartz.
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And bad defenses.

Unless you count '02 and '03. :brow:
 
TitanJeff said:
And bad defenses.

Unless you count '02 and '03. :brow:
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i didnt have nfl sunday ticket for the '02 season, so i cant comment for that year.

i still dont think that '03 defense was all that great. a lot of teams were passing in the second half because a 28-13 deficit.
 
Vigsted said:
And I feel the Jets had significant production to point towards scheming issues.
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And all you can come up with as an example is a play where the corners were playing four yards off the LOS on a down where the Jets needed four yards in order to score? How would you have felt about the technique if McCareins fought off a jam and caught one in the corner of the endzone?


Of that list I'll give you Panthers, Bucs, Jags and Bears. The Giants have 2 good DE's but their line as such is nothing special, the Raven's and Eagle's are not unknown to bringing the blitz often and the Colts defensive line is only good because their offence puts up large numbers forcing opposing teams to pass often.
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The Eagles and Ravens get it done with their DL more than most. Freeney would be a stud on any team.

We have KVB, Albert Haynesworth, Randy Starks and Robaire Smith, who other teams would love to have. Our only weakspot is Laboy and even he's not that bad.
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Yet, with the exception of KVB and Hayesworth for stretches, we didn't get much pressure on Pennington all game long. What does that tell you?

What a blitz often does is leave holes in the secondary. Pennington, and his short drops, made the reads and burned the Titans a few times when a blitz didn't get to him by hitting something quick in the vacated areas.

Bottom line, blitzing is effective if used strategically. The Titans do use it more than I think you give them credit for. But the pressure the DL gets so that a couple of them require double teams just makes the blitz that much more effective.
 
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