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Gut said:
LOL! The stats would suggest that Mariota has helped Walker reach his potential and keep him at his best levels of production (not what you'd expect from a guy who you think sucks). The evidence? In Mariota's rookie season, Walker had career bests in receptions with 94 for 1088yds. He came back down a bit to just being very good the last two years (60+ catches and around 800yds) and reached his career high in td's in 2016 with Marcus. So I think setting career best in receptions and yardage is pretty good. And 3 of Walker's 4 best season's have come with Marcus throwing him the ball.




So for another QB, it's about what's around him? You have brushed off our extremely poor OL play and suggested guys like Taywan Taylor are good weapons around Mariota (and brought up Matthews...who QUIT on the team). Stills outplayed Taylor, right? I doubt the Dolphins OL was worse than ours for most of the season.

QBR is a better measure of the quality of qb play since it takes some context into the rating. Mariota had a 55.6 last year, tied for 19th with Cam Newton. Ryan tannehill ranked 32nd with a 35.4. 50 is considered average qb play.
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If Delanie's production doesn't tell you something about Mariota's ability to "elevate" players, then I'm not sure what will. First of all, you are comparing his production with MM to excellent QBs like Jake Locker and Zack Mettenberger. And his second most productive season actually came with those guys, prior to Mariota's arrival . His most productive season came when Mariota missed 1/4 of the games. With Mariota in the lineup, Delanie averaged a whopping 0.5 more yards per game.

That's what Mariota gives you-backup-caliber production. Which makes it difficult for me to judge Taylor, Sharpe, or any of these other guys. People look at their numbers and inconsistency and claim that they aren't very good. While if you look at our QB's numbers and inconsistency- neither is he.
 
abc2330 said:
With Mariota in the lineup, Delanie averaged a whopping 0.5 more yards per game.
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So you're agreeing that with Mariota he was BETTER...but that's somehow bad? First you state he didn't make Walker better...then you agree above he WAS better...but that's not good? LOL

With Mariota as a rookie in 2015, Delanie had 61 catches for 818 and 6 TD's in 12 games with Mariota...which is about his career high in 3/4 of the season. Wow...what a horrible showing. Don't you just hate it when players reach their career high stats in 3/4 of a season! That QB must be really hurting his production!!!

And CD got worse last year, right? Taylor got worse last year, right? Oh wait, they both had career high years. Isn't that elevation?
 
Gut said:
So you're agreeing that with Mariota he was BETTER...but that's somehow bad? First you state he didn't make Walker better...then you agree above he WAS better...but that's not good? LOL

With Mariota as a rookie in 2015, Delanie had 61 catches for 818 and 6 TD's in 12 games with Mariota...which is about his career high in 3/4 of the season. Wow...what a horrible showing. Don't you just hate it when players reach their career high stats in 3/4 of a season! That QB must be really hurting his production!!!

And CD got worse last year, right? Taylor got worse last year, right? Oh wait, they both had career high years. Isn't that elevation?
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Dude. There was a 0.5 yard difference with Mariota in the lineup. Compared to QBs who aren't even in the league anymore. Is that really the standard that we should be holding him to?

Davis and Taylor improved in year 2-as does virtually every player in the league. Does Mariota deserve credit for that?
 
abc2330 said:
Dude. There was a 0.5 yard difference with Mariota in the lineup.

Davis and Taylor improved in year 2-as does virtually every player in the league. Does Mariota deserve credit for that?
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You don't seem to understand the symbiotic nature of football and how there are many variables that impact a player's stats attributed from many different things. But you want to narrow everything down into raw stats that you don't understand. Case in point are these silly comments you make when you don't understand the context of what you're saying. You say he didn't elevate Walker...then agree that he elevated him but now it's not enough. So you're contradicting your first statement which the reality is, these direct stat to stat comparisons don't work.

You said he didn't elevate anyone, and I just gave you three examples...but that's not good enough for you?

For example, how do you think Tannehill has better 'stats' in raw terms but has a much lower (and below avg) qbr last year while Mariota has lesser raw stats but had an above average qbr?

You keep wanting to b%tch and complain about raw stats when the reality is that's not how winning and losing works. And your complaints are ONLY against our qb. Why aren't you in every thread killing Conklin for a terrible year, Spain and Kline for terrible years, Jones for leading the league in sacks for a OC, Taylor for dropping big passes and TD's, Rak and Morgan for such poor sacks numbers, etc???

Every player in the league improved in year 2??? Wow, what other incorrect info do you want to add?

Then we'll just agree that he's made some players around him better, but not up to your liking.
 
HurrayTitans! said:
I like the idea of signing Suh, just don’t think it’s happening. To me, that means we’re drafting DL early this year.
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Maybe, but if a top 10 Edge we like falls to us I could see us picking up DL help post draft. But screw Suh, give me Wilkerson AND Suh!

Seriously, how would Landry, Casey, Suh, Wilkerson, Sweat look to opposing lines.
 
Gut said:
You don't seem to understand the symbiotic nature of football and how there are many variables that impact a player's stats attributed from many different things. But you want to narrow everything down into raw stats that you don't understand. Case in point are these silly comments you make when you don't understand the context of what you're saying. You say he didn't elevate Walker...then agree that he elevated him but now it's not enough. So you're contradicting your first statement which the reality is, these direct stat to stat comparisons don't work.

You said he didn't elevate anyone, and I just gave you three examples...but that's not good enough for you?

For example, how do you think Tannehill has better 'stats' in raw terms but has a much lower (and below avg) qbr last year while Mariota has lesser raw stats but had an above average qbr?

You keep wanting to b%tch and complain about raw stats when the reality is that's not how winning and losing works. And your complaints are ONLY against our qb. Why aren't you in every thread killing Conklin for a terrible year, Spain and Kline for terrible years, Jones for leading the league in sacks for a OC, Taylor for dropping big passes and TD's, Rak and Morgan for such poor sacks numbers, etc???

Every player in the league improved in year 2??? Wow, what other incorrect info do you want to add?

Then we'll just agree that he's made some players around him better, but not up to your liking.
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I can't believe this argument. We didn't spend a #2 pick on a QB so that we could get .5 more yards per game than we did with a QB who flopped out of the league.

Nobody cares about QBR. It's crap. Do you really believe that Trubisky is the 3rd best QB in the league? Winston is a top 10 QB who is vastly superior to Aaron Rodgers? My goodness. That's as bad as PFF
 
HurrayTitans! said:
But he averages 34 the last 6 games against Tennessee. This Tennessee offense isnt built to put that up any given week and hasn’t shown they can do that in a shootout, only when the D is playing exceptionally well.

Luck can be gotten to. Jax did this and won 6-0 last year.
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Maybe if our offense was on the field more, sustaining drives, and scoring points, Luck wouldn't be able to put up so many points.

Over the past 4 games we've had against Luck (2016 and 2018), the Colts have averaged 33 minutes of TOP. That's 55% of the time of possession, even though both of those years we're supposed to be a run first team and have the better defense. That tells me that their offense is controlling the ball, and ours isn't.
 
Johnnyb said:
Maybe if our offense was on the field more, sustaining drives, and scoring points, Luck wouldn't be able to put up so many points.

Over the past 4 games we've had against Luck (2016 and 2018), the Colts have averaged 33 minutes of TOP. That's 55% of the time of possession, even though both of those years we're supposed to be a run first team and have the better defense. That tells me that their offense is controlling the ball, and ours isn't.
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I’d agree if this last meeting wasn’t a prime example of Luck eating up the D. First 2 drives go for 90+ and eat up almost the entire half. There is literally nothing the offense could do for that. The colts will touch the ball, when that happens, the D has to get pressure and stop from dropping down early. 14 points with gabbert at the helm (won’t happen again) is almost insurmountable.
 
HurrayTitans! said:
I’d agree if this last meeting wasn’t a prime example of Luck eating up the D. First 2 drives go for 90+ and eat up almost the entire half. There is literally nothing the offense could do for that. The colts will touch the ball, when that happens, the D has to get pressure and stop from dropping down early. 14 points with gabbert at the helm (won’t happen again) is almost insurmountable.
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We went 1 for 9 on 3rd down. And the defense tightened up a lot after that, while the offense was horrible the entire game

People seem to forget that we were missing our best pass rusher and Ryan. Yet they got the ball back for the offense in the 4th when it was a one score game.
 
abc2330 said:
We went 1 for 9 on 3rd down. And the defense tightened up a lot after that, while the offense was horrible the entire game

People seem to forget that we were missing our best pass rusher and Ryan. Yet they got the ball back for the offense in the 4th when it was a one score game.
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Yea. Maybe the first game was the better example, it was 38-3 until a late garbage time TD.
Offense needs to do more but when they’re one dimensionally because they don’t stop Luck, that means the D needs to change.

It has been pointed out in each of the last colts games that for whatever reason, our D sits back and plays Lucks game. They just get eaten up.
Our offense needs to score more points every week (or almost). Our D has to stop Luck. None of the changes over Luck’s entire career have even remotely slowed him down.
 
HurrayTitans! said:
Yea. Maybe the first game was the better example, it was 38-3 until a late garbage time TD.
Offense needs to do more but when they’re one dimensionally because they don’t stop Luck, that means the D needs to change.

It has been pointed out in each of the last colts games that for whatever reason, our D sits back and plays Lucks game. They just get eaten up.
Our offense needs to score more points every week (or almost). Our D has to stop Luck. None of the changes over Luck’s entire career have even remotely slowed him down.
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I'm sorry, but I'd love for people to say "our defense is terrible! The Titans controlled the ball all game long and scored at will on us!" rather than us expecting our defense to just stop everyone.

Whens the last time anyone's ever been truly frightened of our offense?
 
Johnnyb said:
I'm sorry, but I'd love for people to say "our defense is terrible! The Titans controlled the ball all game long and scored at will on us!" rather than us expecting our defense to just stop everyone.

Whens the last time anyone's ever been truly frightened of our offense?
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Without a QB, you scare nobody.
 
Johnnyb said:
I'm sorry, but I'd love for people to say "our defense is terrible! The Titans controlled the ball all game long and scored at will on us!" rather than us expecting our defense to just stop everyone.

Whens the last time anyone's ever been truly frightened of our offense?
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You’re right. Hope the offensive adjustments mean at least 45 cause that’s the only way we’re beating the colts if they continue to allow Luck to bend them over.
 
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