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RollTide said:
I''m not advocating trading up more than 1 or 2 spots. 3 at the absolute most. We want to still get a stud player and we want to be at least 90% sure that player will be available. I wouldn't want us to trade down significantly or else we can't determine how it will go. We want to be able to get the player we want. If we trade down to the 5th pick for example we can be almost 100% sure that hawk will be there and mario williams would be there. If one those guys is who we want.

There are 2 main reasons for trading up.
1. We can get a higher value player. Meaning a player who has a higher chance at success at his position than young might have at his.

2. We trade up to get extra draft picks to better meet all our needs.

If we can't get better value with the 4th or 5th pick then why do it? That's why i would be against trading down to get another QB(cutler) or runningback where the risk level for failure is high. OTs are very reliable in the draft. Probably the most reliable position in the draft. You like mario williams? Fine because almost all the absolute best DEs over the last 20 years were drafted in rd one. He would be available.
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You dont trade up and get more picks unless your trade is with the Texans.
I guess you mean trade down?
 
Run defense is always more important than pass defense. Besides, linebackers make a contribution to both...
 
Starkiller said:
Should the Colts have traded down so they didn't have to take Peyton? Should the Bengals have traded down so they didn't have to take Palmer?

We have the #3 pick and a star QB who is getting older. There should be 1 of 2 franchise QBs on the board. Take a QB assuming they grade out...
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I like you mention two of the better picks. What about Vick for LaDainian Tomlinson/Drew Brees? Yeh I'd easily take LT and DB over Overated himself anyday of the week. Akili Smith ("rare athlete"), Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf - all players who their respective teams wish would have traded down and got some value. Hell Akili Smith is the worst one. Cincinnati could have had the entire draft picks of the New Orleans Saints for Akili Smith who wanted Ricky Williams oh so badly. Didn't exactly work out for either side of the trade.
 
Puck said:
so you think our run defense is more critical than our pass defense ?
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yes, we invested three picks in our pass defense last year in the draft. however, we didnt draft a linebacker.

at least last year our pass defence was bad because we had two rookie corners. our run defense was awful with veterans.
 
Look, I'm not saying "Take Youing or Leinart there no matter what the scouts say." I'm all for trading down if they don't grade out. But don't pass on a franchise QB just because other QBs have been busts. We aren't drafting Tim Couch or Akili Smith any more than we are Palmer or Manning.

McNair himself wasn't an NFL-ready player and we took him #3 overall (that worked out OK). I don't suggest playing any rookie QB year 1, but we're going to need to replace McNair eventually. If the scouts think Young, Leinart, or even Cutler grade out as being worth the #3 pick and we don't get a great trade-down value, I'm all for going QB.
 
Starkiller said:
Should the Colts have traded down so they didn't have to take Peyton? Should the Bengals have traded down so they didn't have to take Palmer?

We have the #3 pick and a star QB who is getting older. There should be 1 of 2 franchise QBs on the board. Take a QB assuming they grade out...
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Good points but remember, Manning was almost not the #1 pick. Many thought Leaf was the better guy. If Bush wasn't in this draft we would have a similar scenario with arguments being made which one is better, Leinart or Young. For that matter which one is going to be the next Ryan Leaf?
Also, it was Cincy that thought the same thing when they drafted Akili didn't they. If I was Cincy I probally would have traded down for a bunch of picks with the luck they have had in the draft.
1992 #6 David Klingler
1993 #5 John Copeland
1994 #1 Dan Wilkinson
1995 #1 Ki-Jana Carter
1996 #10 Willie Anderson (finally a decent pick and at #10)
1997 #14 Reinard Wilson (who)
1998 #13 Takeo Spikes (another solid pick at #13)
1999 #3 Akili Smith (Couch went #1 that year)
2000 #4 Peter Warrick
2001 #4 Justin Smith
2002 #10 Levi Jones (surprise pick but turned out to be a solid pick)
2003 #1 Carson Palmer

So for 10 years the only good picks for the Bengals were two #10 OTs and a #13 LB. Yea, I could see why they would trade out with CArson Palmer there for a boat load of picks. Heck, they have had more success when picking 10-13.
 
For all the complaining about how poor the odds of getting a good QB at the top of the draft, perhaps somebody should check out the odds of getting a good QB in round 2, 3, 4, etc. If it's 50/50 at the top of the draft, it has to just keep getting worse as you go on...

You can't just expect to find a Tom Brady in round 6 whenever you need a new starting QB. And you can't pick up a Jake Delhomme off the free agent list all the time.

Like I said, I'm fine with trading down. But only if the guys on the board at #3 are worth less (based on our scouting) than the option of trading down. I'm not going to say that any of the top QBs this year will or won't be great NFL QBs because I have no idea. But if the scouts think they will be great, you have to take them.
 
the only 2 guys I can think of worthy trading down for are LenDale White and DeAngelo Williams
we MIGHT be able to make due with a Omar Jacobs or Brodie Croyle or even Charlie Whitehurst later on ,but I don't feel as comfortable with them as I do Young

i just can't see any reason to trade out of #3
especially not when the QB with the highest completion percentage and fastest 40 is staring you in the face
 
but that LB group was the strength of the defense heading into last offseason - remember. that was everyone's argument who was against the DJ pick.

I do not believe that this went from a competent - no worries group .... to not being worth spit


let me make this clear as mud .....
no rookie LB will be able to come in here and improve a unit that has been together for several years
 
Puck said:
but that LB group was the strength of the defense heading into last offseason - remember. that was everyone's argument who was against the DJ pick.
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i was one of the ones who wanted DJ and dansby the year before that.

you must have watched different defense than i did. all of that chemistry we had allowed 170 yards rushing in two straight games. then after that, we allowed labrandon toefield to have his first 100 yard game in his three year career.

but no worries, because we have chemistry.
 
Puck said:
no rookie LB will be able to come in here and improve a unit that has been together for several years
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and two of the three guys we have in there are so solid, they might not be back next season.
 
Puck said:
and that'll change by adding a rookie LB ?
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Lofa Tatupu and LeRoy Hill??

Actually, our run defense, defense in general is going to suck as long as we have Schwartz running the show.
 
I'm with Puck here. I'm getting tired of the constant infatuation with Hawk. There is not a ghost of a chance in hell that we will trade down to get Hawk, so why the fascination? As long as Reese is in charge here we will not pick a LB high in the draft. Does no one remember his well stated philosophy that he gave last year. He just doesn't think LB's are worth high draft picks. Last year one of the highest rated players on the Titans board was Derrick Johnson. If he didn't pick him last year, he is not going to pick Hawk this year. Most teams are lucky to get a once in a football generation chance to pick a franchise QB. This is our chance, and we are not going to be dumb enough not to take it, or we will risk staying a mediocre team for years after McNair retires. The football gods seem to be smiling on us again. If we trade down, we will be spitting in their face. We don't need more draft picks, we already have too many young players. We need free agents and some difference makers, not 13 more draft picks.
 
bigtitan53279 said:
you must have watched different defense than i did. all of that chemistry we had allowed 170 yards rushing in two straight games. then after that, we allowed labrandon toefield to have his first 100 yard game in his three year career.
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BigTit, you either have selective hearing or creative hearing

I said heading into last offseason
not heading into this offseason

quit trying to twist the words around to support your theory

they might have sucked last year, but we had no worries heading into the '05 draft
 
bigtitan53279 said:
and two of the three guys we have in there are so solid, they might not be back next season.
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granted

but that doesn't justify passing on a franchise QB in the 1st round for a LB
 
Jwill1919 said:
Actually, our run defense, defense in general is going to suck as long as we have Schwartz running the show.
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i keep saying that but some people just won't realize that reality
 
h4t said:
I'm with Puck here. I'm getting tired of the constant infatuation with Hawk. There is not a ghost of a chance in hell that we will trade down to get Hawk, so why the fascination? As long as Reese is in charge here we will not pick a LB high in the draft. Does no one remember his well stated philosophy that he gave last year. He just doesn't think LB's are worth high draft picks. Last year one of the highest rated players on the Titans board was Derrick Johnson. If he didn't pick him last year, he is not going to pick Hawk this year. Most teams are lucky to get a once in a football generation chance to pick a franchise QB. This is our chance, and we are not going to be dumb enough not to take it, or we will risk staying a mediocre team for years after McNair retires. The football gods seem to be smiling on us again. If we trade down, we will be spitting in their face. We don't need more draft picks, we already have too many young players. We need free agents and some difference makers, not 13 more draft picks.
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that's what I call hitting the nail square on the head

I could not agree with this post more

we need to add Veteran help to the LB corps
not alot of rookies that will be subjected to Die Schwartzie's suckness
 
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